December 11 2019 20:23:20
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Biblical Fruit
humanneigor
Why was the biblical fruit of knowledge forbidden?
It’s obvious that this story from the Old Testament was not about the ripeness
of divine fruits, but about the spiritual maturity of the man himself. Only a spiritually
mature mankind can learn the Truth – that is what the Bible conveys in a metaphorical manner.
The Knowledge of the Truth is a sign of spiritual maturity and that’s why only
the Knowledge of the Truth entitles one to the Symbol of the Truth, which is an
Ancient Contact Symbol that will prove to you that we are not alone in the Universe.
The path to the Truth can be found at: truenewworld.com
 
Plumduffannie
More like power and control over the "great unwashed"

Spiritual maturity is a nonsense. There is no path to "The Truth". How much does it cost to take this path?
 
eunicemoanacole
we all come from the one source.your truth may not be the same as my truth.we still end up @ the same place.no we are but a drop in the ocean.
 
Ngamotu34
It's not my truth or your truth but the Creator's TRUTH that counts, & His Truth is found in the Holy Scriptures.
In them we find that mankind is NOT a drop in the ocean but more precious than gold.
And I wouldn't like to gamble on the belief that we all end up in the same place no matter what we do, that's not justice.
 
Plumduffannie
The bible is no more holy than the koran. The Truth is there is no proof for the existence of any deities. Having faith that there is a God is side-stepping proof. Exhorting the truth through faith is unethical. Muslims will profess with equal fervour that Allah is the one true God. The bible is a seriously outdated book full of anomalies, violence, slavery and prejudice. We are the same gene pool as the great apes. They have 24 pairs of chromosomes, we have 23. This was a biological nightmare called the missing link that pervaded until the last 20 years when it was proven that in humans fusion took place on the second chromosome. That fusion is the quintessential reason why human brains have developed a lot more quickly than otherwise. While science must admit it does not know the answers to how it all began (if in fact there was a beginning), the knowledge base forever grows. The stagnant word for word adherence to the bible which leaves room for so much speculation smacks of power-mongering from days well and truly gone by.
 
Ngamotu34
Just clever animals are we Plumduffannie? (love your handle!)
No mind behind the creation? Even scientists are admitting that the creation didn't happen by chance.

The Old Testament contains the history of a tribal people, not much different to the historic tribes of Aotearoa. The New Testament is about non-violence, peace & love. The Koran is meant to supercede the Bible but reverts to tribal laws & violence, - it was welcomed by the Arab nations who have always been jealous of the 12 Tribes of Israel being God's chosen people. We see the evidence of that today with the Arabs trying to do away with Israel. The fact that these activities are even happening as predicted in the Bible should be evidence.

Power-mongering? There's plenty of that on a day-to-day basis without any reference to the Bible or any other code of behaviour.

People just want to live without a code of behaviour & without the belief that they will be accountable to our Creator on the great day of judgement. That's their choice.
 
Ngamotu34
The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil was forbidden because SPIRITUAL LIFE is more important than knowledge. God wanted to test the obedience of Adam & Eve, but they preferred to believe Satan's lies & distortion of truth, - same as many do today.

It's not that God wants us to be ignorant, He wants us to love Him with all our heart, MIND, & body. It is possible, in fact desirable, to believe in God via Te Paipera Tapu from a rational mindset.
I'm a very rational person & do alot of research into these things, reading Dawkins etc..
The more I understand the Bible the more I believe it.

Galatians 5:19-21 lists the "works of the flesh" , categories every one of us fit into to. They are all negative behaviours that hurt other people.
God wants us to love one another.
We can only do that with His help.
Many people are so damaged that they need God for the forgiveness, healing & hope He offers. No other religion offers those things to the extent that Jesus Christ does.

Who is there who can maifest the fruit God is looking for in each of us, as is in Galatians 5:22-23, - "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, & temperance.
Against such there is no law."
These are the positive gifts of life that can only be glimpsed in people who are enabled by te Wairua Tapu who have found freedom from guilt, low self-esteem, cruelty, & every other negative thing you can think of.
Let us not be turned off by the shame of sef-righteous so-called Christians & money-hungry so-called churches. They have been influenced by the old deceiver in order for evil to flourish & destroy humanity.
Regardless of them, there still remains a remnant of true believers & the one & only true Church, which has no name & can't be seen apart from the above listed fruit.
 
Te_Mawhekairangi
Whakapono ki to taha Maori ki nga atua o wo tupuna.
Whakapono ki te mana o nga atua i ahei kia tutukitia te nukuroa o te moana nui a kiwa me Papatuanuku e hora nei.
Te ahua nei e mohio ke atu ana tatou ki nga mohiohio o nga haahi ki nga mohiohio o nga whakapono o nga tupuna. Na te aha tenei? He tika tenei? he hua tenei? ko tenei te hiahia?
 
Plumduffannie
God a realty broker? Please. The Creator of the known Universe thus far versus a deity who is concerned about residential property development in the desert? Na. And, how hard is it to write 10 commandments, 5 of which are about himself! He commands us to love him, believe him, not blaspheme him. If he was so smart how come he can't control Lucifer? We "know" why. Because that is the other half of reality. Like tsunami, floods, sickness, the life cycle which includes physical death um war, genocide, cruelty. Good and bad. Cultures pre and post Christianity are quite capable of discerning theft, dishonour and covetousness. The Arab Nation is responsible for great leaps of knowledge, in particular Algebra and Astronomy. Then along came religion and called it heresy. They to this day have never recovered. When Mohammed held sway over the middle east, they did not crusade against Christianity. The same cannot be said when the Christian crusades kicked in. And do not start me on God works in mysterious ways. The Bible has been one of the greatest marketting achievements of all time..........then came the World Wide Web. As an aside www in Hebrew? 666. Coincidence is such a beautiful thing. Just think, you and I would never have crossed paths otherwise. Kia ora mai ano.
 
Ngamotu34
Did I say anything about God being a realty broker or His mysterious ways? Sure, we don't understand everything yet, we don't have to be know-it-alls. But we can be pretty sure that in the 1,000 year age that Israel will be the land from which the world is ruled.

Watched 2 good programs on TV yesterday, one on the History channel about Nostradamus, 2012 etc, & another on the BBC Documentary channel? about the Bible/Cross, both secular & very good.

I said that God chose the descendants of Abraham because even tho Abraham was an Iraqi, he attempted to obey God. God doesn't control people or impose Himself upon us. We have a free choice. So did Lucifer.

Cultures do have an inbuilt ability to know what's right & wrong, God put that capacity there because we were made in His image. We call it conscience. But sometimes we act like we haven't got one.
Islam is also a religion & existed before that. We must have read different books about the history of Islam! They had their Crusades too, & still do. We are seeing prophesies come to fruition concerning the Arab states & Israel. I watch 2 programs on Daystar TV on Monday nights about these, very interesting.

Interesting too about www being 666. I have an old book about Bible numerics which confirms its authenticity from numerics alone.
 
Ngamotu34
We need to question the things we were taught as children, we get used to all sorts of behaviour & strange beliefs in childhood. Many of these aren't helpful to leading a quality well balanced life.
Apart from being subjected to negative behaviour that scars & damages us, even the encouragement of positive goals such as education, sports & good jobs are not enough.
I made a point of educating myself throughout life so that I can pass on to my uri the life skills they need to avoid the mistakes I made, get healing for the damage done to them, know hope in a hopeless world, peace in a world full of strife, confidence & satisfaction from doing their best.
 
Plumduffannie
My cousin came to visit me one day and was so excited because he had just come from a session with a clairvoyant. "How much did she scam out of you?" was my first question followed by, "Let me tell you for free what she told you. You will go on a trip over the next two months. Your right leg will give you trouble and you will meet someone during this trip that will leave a lasting impression on you. At some future stage you will see her again but not right now". (Words to that effect). He was astonished, "Do you know her cuz, did she call you?" "No I just guessed", did not satisfy him, so I asked for $20 just for the hell of it. Within 5 minutes we were killing ourselves laughing.

Anyway that kuare first post implies that unless you are spiritually mature you cannot know the Truth. So we have this amazing brain for nothing! Things that have always bothered me about religion, but more especially the Abrahamic ones which I am more familiar with:

Easter - the celebration of sacrifice
Jesus - the scapegoat
Christmas - the celebration of adultery
Immaculate conception - the celebration of rape (Mary had no say)
Eat, this is my body; drink, this is my blood - the celebration of cannibalism

I'll grant that I have viewed the foregoing at an obtuse angle, but the notion of an archaic, desert dwelling, ignorant, warfaring, tribal, stone age peoples handing a book of life down through the ages is downright idiotic.
Abraham's faith is tested by this Omniscient Being instructing him to offer his son Isaac up as a Sacrifice. Bear in mind this is the same guy that made the Universe, in 6 days less than 6,000 years ago, and then, made us in his image, although I fail to see why he would have a body like ours. He is also very concerned with who we are sleeping with. The thought that there is an all-seeing, all-knowing sky daddy watching our every move is plain creepy. And all those sanitized, white Jesus pictures and beautiful scenes, virgin Mary's, halos, cherubs, warm fuzzies are not a true representation of the reality of those times. In fact what we see on the world news, the fighting, the poverty, the oppression, the homelessness is much closer than the saintly marketing machine with which religion has become so richly endowed.




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tane_ariki
I like Te Mawhekairangi's korero Smile
 
Ngamotu34
What use is Truth to mankind if only the spiritually mature can grasp it?
Sure, you need to be spiritually aware or alive to get it, & many people are, - atheists included.
Nevertheless, many atheists grasp & accept it when they have minds open enough to search the scriptures of Christianity & other religions for themselves, - instead of accepting the status quo of religion.
So, you're right, - we are able, & should do so, to make sense of it all with our brains, if we are willing.
And you're right about the misrepresentation & misunderstanding of the times, past, present & future, & the role of Israel & the scriptures in it all.
I'm still learning, but it's an exciting trip & not easy to condense it in blogs!

But God did make us in His image, spiritually!
Adam stuffed that up & we've inherited his spiritual genes.
If you believe there is a Creator, you must wonder why He made the universe. He made it for the same reason as humans provide a home for their children. He loves us & wants us to be happy & treat each other right.
He doesn't force us to, we make the choice. It's not His fault that we war against each other, live greedy lives while others starve, abuse our children, get AIDS etc..
Of course He cares about who we sleep with, - I've been around in my own life. My family still suffer from that.
 
Plumduffannie
I take no issue with an individual's personal beliefs. I know their faith has been the the only reason they have turned their lives around. It could have been faith in another person, an inspirational book, maturity, co-incidence and many others, but the innumerable cases for God are a testament to willpower and a guiding influence. What I do have serious difficulty with, (for example) is a guy sitting in the finest linens, drinking out of golden chalices, housing some of the worlds finest artworks and is the Head of State of Vatican City, a sovereign state entirely enclaved within the city of Rome. Then, there are the fire and brimstone evangelists, and the extremists like Westboro Church and Jihadists. I have great admiration for the father of 4 who works 5 days a week takes care of his family and " hands 10% of his income to God. But when you see the "dear leader" driving around in a hummer and residing in a mansion in "exclusive" Whitford, logic begins to weave its unstoppable truth. This is not "God at Work". The hand of the oppressor is utterly dependent upon the minds of the oppressed. The victim is Truth.
 
Ngamotu34
I totally agree with you!

But hope & release from guilt & shame can't be attributed to will power.
The so-called churches who prosper & use their wealth to live sumptuously aren't following the example & words of Christ, they are the "Whore" or "harlot" of Revelations 17. She is also the "mother of harlots", which are those churches who were spawned by her.

The true Church is not an organisation, is invisible, is within us, & is only identified by the manifestation of the fruit of God's spirit, - "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, & temperance. (Galatians 5:22).
These people are able to bear this fruit because they have accepted that Jesus Christ is the Messiah & saviour of humanity, that He was the Creator in the flesh, lived a perfect life so was qualified to be the scapegoat replacing animal sacrifices; rose from the dead; & gave us His Spirit to enable us to bear fruit.
 
eunicemoanacole
Ngamotu34 u sound as though u read a lot of the scriptures,however do u apply the principles.u use the male term wen making reference 2 the creator,how do u no the creator is male?
R u 4getting we all hav god within us.I think most of us no sum of the scriptures,but do u really understand it.It is not mankind more precious than gold.It is LIFE.Remember other species were here b4 mankind.Look around u,what makes the flower bloom.
 
Ngamotu34
You're right, I should refer to God as "IT" or "He/She". Maybe God hasn't got a sexual affiliation, I don't think of He/She as male.

How do you see God in us all? Have you got scriptures for that?
To me, the God we all have in us is conscience, & some of us have got very little of that & what we do have is "seared", - i Timothy 4:1- .it has become immune to truth & sin.

No-one understands all the scripture, we're all ever learning.

Mankind is meant to be more precious than gold, this is how God sees us & wants us to be.

Isaiah 13:12; Lamentations 4:2; Zechariah 13:9; & Job 23:10.

Was I forgetting "other species were here b4 mankind"?

I look around at God's creation every day & marvel at what He's made & how He "makes the flowers bloom" etc.!

Do I "apply the principles"? Well, I sure try to! What about you?
 
Plumduffannie
accepted that Jesus Christ is the Messiah & saviour of humanity, that He was the Creator in the flesh, lived a perfect life so was qualified to be the scapegoat replacing animal sacrifices; rose from the dead; & gave us His Spirit to enable us to bear fruit.

Bro step back and read this and realise the enormity of what it is saying.

I will not live my life with someone else's blood on my hands. There is no way some guy died for me or anyone else in order to be saved. So a sadists bashes the life out of someone, accepts "the Lord as his Saviour" and hey presto, it's all good? Whereas a guy in the Borneo jungle who knows nothing about JC, Big Daddy or Spook but has his own cultural relativism is doomed to the eternal fires of Sheol? This defies logic.


But God did make us in His image, spiritually!
Adam stuffed that up & we've inherited his spiritual genes.
If you believe there is a Creator, you must wonder why He made the universe. He made it for the same reason as humans provide a home for their children. He loves us & wants us to be happy & treat each other right.


Bro, you are in thrall. This is fairyspeak. I note the rider "If you believe" What we all know is the tremendous suffering throughout the world. I have hope for humanity, that we will learn, that we will prevail. The notion that some crazed deity destroys this planet and saves only those who "believe" in him is wrong. Does a parent walk away from their child, right or wrong, .....ever? You hang in there, guiding, patient, reinforcing, strong, loving until they come through the other side and I don't have figures, but the majority do. Certainly when they do wrong, finding a scapegoat is not an option.
Edited by Plumduffannie on 01-07-2013 02:39
 
tane_ariki
Plumduffannie wrote:
accepted that Jesus Christ is the Messiah & saviour of humanity, that He was the Creator in the flesh, lived a perfect life so was qualified to be the scapegoat replacing animal sacrifices; rose from the dead; & gave us His Spirit to enable us to bear fruit.

Bro step back and read this and realise the enormity of what it is saying.

I will not live my life with someone else's blood on my hands. There is no way some guy died for me or anyone else in order to be saved. So a sadists bashes the life out of someone, accepts "the Lord as his Saviour" and hey presto, it's all good? Whereas a guy in the Borneo jungle who knows nothing about JC, Big Daddy or Spook but has his own cultural relativism is doomed to the eternal fires of Sheol? This defies logic.


Well tbh we don't know if we're condemned to that Borneo dude's sheol or hell or gehenna or where it is we're going to be condemned to (if we are condemned at all).

Plumduffannie wrote:
But God did make us in His image, spiritually!
Adam stuffed that up & we've inherited his spiritual genes.
If you believe there is a Creator, you must wonder why He made the universe. He made it for the same reason as humans provide a home for their children. He loves us & wants us to be happy & treat each other right.

Bro, you are in thrall. This is fairyspeak. I note the rider "If you believe" What we all know is the tremendous suffering throughout the world. I have hope for humanity, that we will learn, that we will prevail. The notion that some crazed deity destroys this planet and saves only those who "believe" in him is wrong. Does a parent walk away from their child, right or wrong, .....ever? You hang in there, guiding, patient, reinforcing, strong, loving until they come through the other side and I don't have figures, but the majority do. Certainly when they do wrong, finding a scapegoat is not an option.


I identify as a Christian and thank you for posing the questions you have. So many Christians have become mentally lazy tis not funny. I do question various Christian doctrines but I wouldn't say that I am not a believer - I only question the lack of commonsense that many Christians have.
 
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